Well this is a poorly thought out piece of crap of an idea.

You're completely nerfing wormhole intel gathering and changing the entire meta of wormholes by effectively mandating that people in wormholes constantly maintain a skynet of cloak detecting probes.

You failed to consider ripple effects. You attempted to fix a problem that's not really a problem, and in effect break a necessary tool in an entirely different section of the game. It's critical to be undetected and undetectable in wormholes for a variety of reasons. You really want to "fix" the non-issue with cloaked afk people?

Fix the fact that you can see cloaked ships in local in the first place, and do so in a balanced way.

The whole idea is removing the incentive to AFK. That includes wormholes which are plagued by the practice just as much.

Edit: Also remember that it is a random point. There is no way you can maintain an umbrella over just the area of OPs and expect to uncloak the person. Also the huge scan times would prevent that.

I was under the impression that a cloakers main objective was to gather intel. Killing should be the least of your concerns. If you are concerned about kills then you are doing it wrong. And players I have encountered that is out to gather intel, don't stick around. Its the players that wants a kill that do. And the ones that stick around rarely flies a cov-ops since, as stated, it has no tank. Again, the cloak is not being used for its purpose.

Sorry, I do not agree with this solution. It reworks some of the major mechanics and is not necessary. Here is an option that I developed https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=23411 . I don't care whether it "needs" to be done for balance or not, that is irrelevant to the conversation.

I'm not talking about intel gathering in WH's here. That is done in a completely different manner cause of system mechanics. Im talking about intel gathering in 0.0, because of system mechanics.

In a cov-op, with a cov-op cloak, you can get quite a lot of info without being detected. From number of people in system to the reaction of said individuals. A cov-op generally have no tank, nor dps and need to keep a general low profile when sniffing about. Get what you need, and get out. That is how its usually been in my encounters of this kind, and that is not a problem. Cloak works as intended.

The problem arises when players uses ships not intended for cov-ops roles. That is where I think the system is wrong. Since you can still get plenty of info while staying cloaked. Dscan and probe scanning can be done even while you are cloaked, and this messes up with the no risk no reward. Since it really is no risk staying cloaked in a safe spot somewhere. Then you should not get any reward either, i.e. scanning information.

I havent proposed anything yet thou.

And Ingvar, there is a rather easy way to exclude WH if you are so worried about it.

Example:
Module Something is doing something to something.

Warning! This module will not work outside known space.

If they used said cloak to hide only, then no, it wouldn't be a problem. But they scan too, quite actively, atleast for a moment. Then they wait for complacency.

If non cov-ops could be prevented from scanning aswell, then no, it wouldn't be a problem.

I don't wan't AFK cloakers in WH not to be affected. At best give them 3-4 minutes on grid before a cloak probe scan can even register that a random point exists. Otherwise if you AFK in a "hole" as apparently y'all like to call it. You ought to be able to be found and destroyed. WH hisec, lull and null

So your solution instead of addressing the solution is removing them from local so they have even more guaranteed free kills.

No that is not a solution and yes I am trying to break AFK cloaking. The same argument you make can be made for the "need" of AFK cloaking in any space. "We NEED to counter local" "We NEED to get these (free) kills"

If you can sit there in a system cloaked with access to Dscan then go take a shower take a nap or do what you want. I want it made risky. Not exempted.

He will simply stay in a safespot. Watch Dscan and run in for the hotdrop before your sonar could even think. Sadly anything less than probes just wont be enough.

I do like the spirit of it tho.

A cov ops aligns and warps fast. And the scan time for my probes is so long there is no reasonable way for the enemy to predict when you are making your reset point run. If they think starting a scan guarantees that you will move away long enough for them to move the good stuff they are wrong,

And for wormholes I have already said I don't mind making your initial reset point appear only after you remain on grid for some time. (So you can constantly reset your grid and the enemy not even know you are there for those wormholes) I am after adding risk to going afk while cloaking.

And experienced cloaker will know how to warp off and back fast. That is that. I have given you all the benefit I can without removing the ability to attack those that are AFK. The next ideas are things that WILL affect you such as fuel bays and random decloaks.

Something tells me you wont support the fuel bay idea. Then again if you are AFK cloaking you wont like any of my ideas anyway.

Regardless. The idea is here. Make the AFK ones able to be probed down and solve the issue.

Again. If you warp off you reset the random point and cant be decloaked. If you are too lazy to hit the warp button and have a safespot just off grid. I don't know what to tell you. This will add risk to going AFK while cloaked.

And I don't run bots yet I would benefit from this by being able to probe down and remove a cloak that has gone afk for a long time. Also I am anti-botting and that is why I support the "report bot" function. If you see a bot. Report it and let CCP deal with the situation.

I
To answer you tho. You will have to do the simple warp off and return to prevent you from being decloaked by the probes. You do that so you dont have to deal with a cloak fuel bay or have to scramble when a message tells you that you will randomly decloak in 30 seconds.

Trust me when I say that compared to some of the other ideas I read on how to do with it. This is downright nice to cloakers in my opinion.Or do you like the idea of a POS module that can uncloak everyone in system instantly :P

If I would have something against cloakers in general I would not be flying an Anathema and a Purifier now would I? It about AFK cloaking and nothing else.


Never lost a hulk to one. I did lose a salvage Cormorant to one once tho. As you can guess tho that loss it not worth the time it took to make the images and design the idea further.

My corpmates however dared to face the AFK cloaker. Within hours they got a hotdrop. I had seen AFK cloakers in action before. And it was bad then but lately they are everywhere because it is the new thing to do. Why roam when you can AFK and gather intel on your enemies whenever you want? Hotdrops if you got em!

So sorry if you have to do a little warping to avoid a decloak but this is my idea. You will see my modification of the cloak fuel bay idea in a few days and modification of the random decloak idea in a few more. You will quickly see why this one is better.

If it is a stack of crap to you it must be because you are an AFK cloaker right? I have shown countless times that you can only decloak if you stay on grid and prevent your random point from changing.

Yet if your wormhole life revolves around cloaking up and going to the movies I can very much see why you are as active in this topic as I am.

I know AFK cloakers feel that the tide is turning against them. They have overplayed their hand by a mile and half. It used to be a few systems so the calls were few and far between. Now its more than a few topics and a Winter patch that is going to bring attention to nullsec and hopefully AFK cloaking again.

And here I am designing ideas for CCP to consider on it. I will have to do more ideas to give CCP options because to be frank this sounds alot like the days prior to the great concord buff in hisec. The pirates also claimed that CONCORD would not be buffed and their free kills would continue.

Do you or do you not walk away from the client or otherwise not pay attention to it while cloaked while online for an extended period of time?

That is AFK cloaking.

Yes or no Mister Ingvar? Do you walk away or spend time not active in the client when cloaked?

I had a better post typed out but this forum for some reason likes to crap out and eat my post (how about you?) Ill detail it later but I consider "bad" AFK to be in the range of an hour or other long extended periods of time. My plan would have you decloaked within 30-45 mins depending.

Why not just create a new system upgrade


SYSTEM CLOAK JAMMER

just like a system cyno jammer.

160 activate timer, effects ALL CLOAKS in system, friend and foe.

Costs the system owner to maintain for a little added security



Just another idea how it COULD be implemented.

I leave the debate as to whether it does/doesn't need to be implemented to all of you.

You weren't in a Badger by chance?

I was in a WH quite a while ago in a SB looking for a few kills. The hole I was in had a drake at the POS, hulking minig in a belt, and a maelstorm standing watch over it.

Then I scanned down an indy that looked like it was just sitting there, begging to be shot at. I declocked, and after my first or second salvo, away it went.

The solution to AFK Cloaking is not to remove local. That will just boost huge alliances and make it more prevalent.

My probe idea is fair. Because if you cant be bothered to get off grid in the silly long time it takes to scan this random point then you are not just temp AFK you are away from the area or away from the idea of EVE.

Don't remove or delay local. Remove the incentive to go AFK while cloaked.

I replied to someone again stating the "solution" is some big alliance buffing "remove local" deal. Similar to your idea I might add. Both aid the big alliances just differ in how much they "buff"

My idea targets the incentive to walk away while cloaked for long periods of time. It needs to be implemented or another idea that isn't some part "remove my ass from local so I can getz mah free solo kills for the few months they will line up and be mah target"

This is what my idea does. It gives the small amount of risk needed to balance out the abuse of the cloaking system. It is flexible in its adaption and directly targets the incentive to go AFK while cloaked. Players should not get to come back after a day at the pool or a night at the movies to a free solo kill or hotdrop simply because they have a running module in hostile territory.

It once may have been a tool of small potatoes to inflict effect on larger entities but these days it is the large alliances using it to soften up territory by inflicting free reduction in funds and mins to buy and build ships for good defense. You can deny this all you want but I have seen it for myself.

Correction. It is breaking YOUR cloak method that requires you to be able to enjoy a hot bath or night at the movies (Go ahead and claim you are watching the hole like a hawk that I simply wont believe) Uncloak, kill, get your solo kill or be baited and have to refit your cheap ass ship and come back later. If in nullsec you get your billions victory from a hotdrop.

The "safety" comes because you don't want to be active. Don't want to spend the 15 secs logging in and recloaking the moment you appear. Yes you now have a single disadvantage! A new feeling I bet.

Actually that's what the anti-cloak standpoint is all about - people want to defend their sovereign space aggressively by probing down (or whatever) and eliminating hostiles (cloakers). Defending sov is entirely different from gameplay mechanics based around a 'reactive stance'. The only real issue is the effect of change on w-space playstyle; namely, that wormhole systems would become too defensible with a counter to cloaks.